Sep 14
House to Astonish Presents: The Lightning Round Episode 22
Posted on Saturday, September 14, 2024 by Al in Podcast
It’s time to chew over a big beatdown bonanza as we look at the climactic clash between the Tbolts and Graviton in Thunderbolts issues 56-58, and take the time to say goodbye to Marvel’s breakout character of 1998. Then it’s time for something completely different, as one of the least fondly remembered gimmicks of the Bill Jemas era rears its very quiet head in issue 59.
The episode is here, or available via the embedded player below. Let us know what you think, in the comments, on Bluesky, via email or on our Facebook fan page. And have you seen those new clothes the Emperor is wearing? They’re absolutely rubbish compared to a House to Astonish t-shirt.
Graviton’s world shaping plan reminds me of what Darkseid did in LSH in the 80s. He actually did it, too.
If I were writing the Daredevil series at this time and Bill Jemas instructed me to omit sound and dialogue from an issue of a blind superhero’s comic book, I probably would’ve punched him in the face.
‘Nuff Said was definitely an odd idea, but I liked the Peter Parker: Spider-Man issue Paul Jenkins and Mark Buckingham did, where Spider-Man has to fight an army of mimes.
I’m sure I bought a half-dozen others at the time, just because I was buying those titles already, but none of them stand out, although didn’t Morrison and Quietly’s X-Men issue actually have one line of dialogue on the very last page?
The ‘Nuff Said issues I always think of are the Avengers issue where Kang conquers the US,Black Panther with the Iron Fist vs T’Challa fight ans Ross drawing pictures for exposition, and of course “Silence: Psychic Rescue In Progress.”
And Conrad Josten comes back in New Thunderbolts #100, kind of.
And Meteorite’s death backstory reminds me of the way that in the later Metal Gear games, when you beat a boss either they or a resource character tells you your victim’s life story and why they are the way they are
I thought Exiles’ Nuff Said issue was decent: the team get to spend a night in a hotel and it’s a series of dream/nightmare sequences which fill in a bit of backstory and motivation.
The New X-Men ‘Nuff Said issue was a great showcase for Quitely. And yes, Morrison cheated with a couple of lines for Jean right at the end.
I wonder sometimes if that experiment didn’t inspire Morrison to try trimming down their dialogue in subsequent projects. The 8-word origin story at the beginning of All-Star Superman, maybe. And I recall another silent sequence in one of their books, but I can’t remember which — maybe one of the iterations of their Batman run. Or We3?
“If I were writing the Daredevil series at this time and Bill Jemas instructed me to omit sound and dialogue from an issue of a blind superhero’s comic book, I probably would’ve punched him in the face.”
I laughed so hard at this out loud in the pub at 10 AM
I felt incredibly cheated having to pay for the ‘Nuff Said comics, but I was a completist, so I couldn’t just skip that month’s issue.
The Paul Jenkins Peter Parker: Spider-Man issue was the only one I enjoyed also. Jenkins also managed to save the “Maximum Security” cross-over with his “Peter gets abducted by the Greys” story, although that event wasn’t infuriating in the sense of ‘Nuff Said. Ah, Jenkins’ Peter Parker: Spider-Man was such a great series. I think it was the last time I truly cared about a Spider-Man comic.
It was especially egregious at a time when Marvel had hired a number of people specifically due to their acclaimed writing ability. “Grant Morrison. Peter Milligan. Paul Jenkins. Marvel has them all under contract. For this month, we’re going to have these writers not include any writing in the comics.”
Looking back, I have a soft spot now for the Casey/Garney issue of Uncanny X-Men due to the fact that neither of them seemed to have any idea what they were doing with their ‘Nuff Said issue. It’s so ludicrously terrible that it manages to stand out from a month where almost all of Marvel’s output made me shake my head.
I remember Claremont really cheating with his X-Treme X-Men story by including sound effects.
Kang sort of had to be referenced because this is smack bang in the middle of the Kang War just before the world surrenders to him, so it would definitely have been a question from fans why he’d chosen not to care about the planet he was planning to conquer suddenly being terraformed into a giant bust of some loser.
The Nuff Saids were a lot more tolerable/interesting when they were part of the Panini runs and thus bundled with the preceding comic.
Grant Morrison cheated a lot with his story. He had a door vomit letters just so the characters could make floating sentences out of them. Which are legally distinguishable from ordinary word balloons, granted, but really? Also they spoke in icons.
I haven’t read it since, but I have fond memories of Dan Jurgens’s Thor Nuff Said issue, which was about Thor and family mourning the recent death of Odin. There was absolutely no cheating with text-boxes or anything, and the silence fitted the tone of the story.
Busiek’s Avengers was the one that incensed me. A key chapter in an 18-month story, the turning point of the saga in which Kang *literally conquered the Earth* and it had to play out in silence. Christ.
That splash page with the heroes was the last appearance on Danny Ketch until he returned in the Ghost Rider books in 2008. So for years people were like “I guess he’s still out there having off panel adventures, since he was shown as Ghost Rider in that Thunderbolts issue after all”
Kind of disappointed that you mention a Z-list villain’s Official Handbook entry, discuss his creation for a bit, and don’t come up with ideas for what he could be doing now.
I think what M’Reel is trying to say with the “wind” line is that Graviton is their hero, and everything they would like to be.
Secret Agent X-9 appeared in Raymond’s better known strip Flash Gordon a while back. I’m not sure how much of a while back, because I recently learned that the strip was in reruns until last year. It might have originally been while X-9’s own strip was still running.
Nuff Said is a dumber idea, but Flashback Month was much more skippable, because they were all clearly not part of an ongoing story.
@Chris V: It was especially egregious at a time when Marvel had hired a number of people specifically due to their acclaimed writing ability. “Grant Morrison. Peter Milligan. Paul Jenkins. Marvel has them all under contract. For this month, we’re going to have these writers not include any writing in the comics.”
That’s just it, though, Jemas got it into his head that it was a sign of a really good writer when they could tell a story entirely in directions to the artist, actually, and thought “Hey, I’ve got some really good writers!” missing the part where that only applied if the writers themselves had an idea that required it, and maybe if every other book wasn’t doing the exact same thing, emphasising that it’s a gimmick for the sake of a gimmick. It’s like he’d watched Memento, thought “Well, that was clever” and declared a Stories Going Backwards Month.
@Chris McFeely – Yeah, reading that Avengers ‘Nuff Said issue was like watching a Michael Bay movie with the volume turned all the way down (although turning the sound all the way down would probably improve most Michael Bay movies). That was a story that wanted and needed to be loud.
But, I think by this point, Busiek was in full “gives no fucks” mode. One of the main reasons he left Avengers was because of Jemas. I recall a reader asking Busiek on a message board if all of the attention and publicity Marvel was giving The Ultimates at the time had anything to do with his decision to leave. Busiek replied that it “absolutely did have something to do with it” and that he grew tired of Avengers “being treated like a loser series by its own publisher.” (I definitely remember the wording on that because it took me by surprise. Busiek never struck me as the type to bitch about his bosses in public, and yet he did in this case).
By the way, Angar the Screamer was awesome in the Modok TV show. His power was a heavy metal power scream.
Out of curiosity, is there anyone in the industry who *doesn’t* have an issue with Jemas?