House to Astonish Episode 104
Even though it’s been a relatively quiet couple of weeks for comics news, we still somehow managed to put together an hour and three quarters of discussion of the Saga/Comixology shenanigans, the first transgender character in the New 52, the sad passing of Carmine Infantino and the July solicitations. We’ve also got reviews of Avengers Assemble AU, Batman and Invincible Universe, and the Official Handbook of the Official Handbook of the Marvel Universe is going swimmingly. All this plus Bob Harras’s trousers falling down, what AU really stands for and Marvel’s most confusingly numbered ongoing series.
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Anti-climactic?
Climaxes are what got Saga into trouble in the first place.
[rimshot]
That Mark Waid Cap story was called “Man Without a Country”, not “Enemy of the State”, which was a Mark Millar Wolverine story. “Man Without a Country” is currently collected in the “Captain America: Operation Rebirth” trade.
More circumstantial info that I think backs up Al’s U.C. Theory. Hickman is in the process of introducing the NU to Marvel and I believe he started this run of Ultimates. Plus this would be the perfect time to follow upon the other Miles Morales cliffhanger.
The Inhumans series was by Ladronn and Jorge Lucas, not Carlos Pacheco. You guys are killing me today! Read your back issues! 😉
Agents Of Change? Wonder if they got the name from this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WvrVhS6aEVI
Max – thanks for the correction on the Waid Cap story. The Inhumans was drawn by Ladronn (for three issues) and Lucas (for one), but it was Pacheco and Rafael Marin who wrote it.
House to Astonish: Probably Correct About 50% of the Time
According to the listings Bleeding Cool got for early 2014, Dial H Vol. 2 will have issues 7-16, so I wouldn’t be surprised if that’ll be the final issue. I suppose we’ll find out when the September solicitations come out.
Isn’t Ystin a transgender character in the New 52 too?
Collider isn’t technically a “new” Vertigo book, it was announced a year ago: http://www.comicbookresources.com/?page=article&id=38323 It was supposed to be out in September but was delayed, possibly due to Robbi Rodriguez being legally blind and needing more time.
I don’t like how people are equating the scenes in Saga #12 and the sex scene in the previous issue. The images were not of two loving men expressing their love physically, it was an extreme and debased act.
One thing that they do have in common is that they were both incidental to the story. If anything, they weaken the story. I can only think of one of the several sex/nudity scenes in the series so far that is actually integral to the story – the scenes on Sextillion. You could argue the case for that giant, and The Stalk is a great design. But otherwise, it’s all completely unnecessary. (I don’t count the breastfeeding scene.)
I love Saga to bits, I believe it’s one of the best comics I’ve read. But using sex to shock is cheap. And if it ends up meaning I can’t buy the comic online, I won’t make the effort to buy it otherwise.
Re: Batgirl – How is the Shining Knight not the first transgendered character in the New 52?
@Rhett – I’m a million miles away from being an expert (and apologies to anyone reading this if I’m using inappropriate/offensive pronouns) but I think since Ystin describes him/herself not as a man in a woman’s body, but “both”, that makes him/her genderqueer if this describes how s/he feels inside, or intersex if s/he’s referring to his/her physical biology.
Never heard Al sound quite so flustered as he did when trying to explain That Panel of “Saga”. 😀
Silent War, Secret Invasion: Inhumans, the whole War of Kings bit and Realm of Kings: Inhumans didn’t ring bells, huh?
Silent War is an odd one, as it ends on a huge cliffhanger that was never resolved, as it ran right into a major crossover that took Black Bolt off the table, IIRC. So it ends with an imminent attack on Earth by Maximus, that I don’t think was ever followed up on.
It’s a shame, I really liked both Son of M and Silent War, I’d have liked to see the end of the trilogy.
I’d just add to “Dont read Batman: Year Two, it stinks” that the sequel, Full Circle is worse, and in any case, this version of the Reaper seems to owe nothing to the original concept except the name and costume.
(Watch Mask of the Phantasm and you get a pretty good idea of what the orginal Reaper’s schtick was, and a much better experience.)
It’s an interesting point about Batman’s personality not being allowed to change much, because they’ve been attempting that recently, and it’s not been sticking. Morrison’s been trying to do the whole “Batman realises he has people who care about him and stops being a grim loner” thing, which they try every few years and which never works. And “Death in the Family” seems to have put a stop to that pretty firmly.
(Which reminds me, here’s a fun exercise: DotF ends with no-one in the Bat-Family trusting Bruce any more except the very much alive Damien. The Batman Inc storyline features the Family all acting together with no friction at all, and ends with Damien’s death. Subsequent Batbooks are set in the immediate aftermath of both events. Construct a timeline that makes a bit of sense.)
More interestingly, Morrison and others have also been experimenting with seperating Batman’s desire for justice from “vengence for his parents deaths”, and asking questions like “How well does he remember his parents anyway?” Of course, now he has a whole new reason to swear vengeance on criminals…
Funny, incidentally, how the exceptionally regressive Batgirl book – having removed one of comics’ few positively-presented paraplegics – is suddenly being held up as an example of progressiveness…
Paul F> Silent War is an odd one, as it ends on a huge cliffhanger that was never resolved, as it ran right into a major crossover that took Black Bolt off the table, IIRC. So it ends with an imminent attack on Earth by Maximus, that I don’t think was ever followed up on.
> It’s a shame, I really liked both Son of M and Silent War, I’d have liked to see the end of the trilogy.
I know (well, actually, I liked Silent War a *lot* more than Son of M – partly for focusing on the Inhumans rather than Quicksilver – but same result either way). They handwaved the SW ending away completely in SI: Inhumans in a way that didn’t really make sense.
Daibhid> Which reminds me, here’s a fun exercise: DotF ends with no-one in the Bat-Family trusting Bruce any more except the very much alive Damien. The Batman Inc storyline features the Family all acting together with no friction at all, and ends with Damien’s death. Subsequent Batbooks are set in the immediate aftermath of both events. Construct a timeline that makes a bit of sense.
Up until Damien’s death, hadn’t the other DCnU Bat-books been treating Batman Inc as something that happened in the past (i.e., before N52 Batman #1), while Morrison wasn’t really bothering with DCnU continuity at all? [dropping references to stuff like Metamorpho’s JLA membership when I’m not even sure he exists in the DCnU, and certainly hasn’t been a JL member at this point even if he does].
UK pals to astonish can find Mask of the Phantasm on ClubcardTV dot com. You’ll need an account, and for DRM reasons it requires you to install Sliverlight, but hey: all the Justice Leagues, Batsman and Supermans you could ever want apart from Beyond for free. Oh, and Wonder Woman. And New Frontier. And some motion comics. And Humdrum (which isn’t DC but is rather good). Oh, and Return of the Joker! Some Beyond after all!
Re-read the Carmine Infantino Flash origin story today. My first, strongest memory of DC Comics, I think. Such efficiency of storytelling and strength of design – the sausage supper hanging in the air, the bullet sl-l-oo-o-w-w-l-y picoing towards Iris’ stupid head. Of course, Jay Garrick’s origin scores high on the Giggle-o-meter, too (knocking over Science while Smoking), but Infantino’s version is just ginchy.
I had such a crush on Infantino’s Spider-Woman, as well. To be fair, I was four, but still: the weird shape of her eyepieces in profile, the sharp cheekbones, the calligraphic figurework. Just lovely. Never bettered (okay, Steve Leialoha was pretty good).
I really hope Age of Ultron doesn’t end up infecting the Ultimate line. There’s already more than enough shared universe stuff clogging up Ult’Spidey. I’d hate to see more.
To my shame, I left the Lethal Deadly Arachnis Menace of Spider-Man on the shelves back in the day. I’ll definitely give this new thing a look, though. How could a man named “Steve Lieber” make a bad Spider-Man comic? /rhethorical /IreadWhiteout
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@Daibhid Ceannaideach- it does seem like Ystin is coming out as intersex or genderqueer, but Paul Cornell has confirmed that the character is transgender.
I’m not sure why Paul sounded so sarcastic when talking about Mass Effect cut-scenes. In my experience most people that like Mass Effect pretty much do feel that the story and dialogue is a high point of the game.
I’d be interested in finding out when certain issues of comics we’re available on the comixology app as I notice Prison Pit is on there which seems one of the most graphic item available (although some of the generic male fantasy titillation comics are also present).
If, for example, Prison Pit was available before the Saga saga it would appear to me to be more of a media move by comixology to raise interest/purchasers of Saga.
That said I finally downloaded the app and decided to put some money down but set myself a limit that I’m not allowed to buy anything by the big two. I picked up an issue of Orc Stain and then another and then another etc. It is excellent.
But again Orc Stain is reasonably graphic in places, and part of the background is that the orcs pay for things with severed Orc penises…again was this available before the Saga saga?
One thing that hasn’t been mentioned in the coverage of Saga is that even though it was Comixology’s descision, when you look at what Apple did to Izneo, where they were given 30 hours to remove all adult comics from their iOS store or they would be kicked out of iTunes, without any real guidance as to which comics needed to be pulled, it is clearly Apple’s fault for arbitrary guidelines.
http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20130404/19021322583/apple-threatens-to-kick-out-comic-book-app-over-adult-content-forcing-publisher-to-pull-40-its-4000-titles.shtml
Yeah, the Bat-continuity around Damian’s death is completely irreconcilable. In the wake of Death of the Family, Jason and Damian have scenes together that refer back to them working together in Batman Inc, but that’s the very same story (with no opportunities to insert any time passing) where Damian dies. And you can’t say Batman Inc definitely comes after DotF anyway because Jason’s face is messed up in the same issue where he talks with Damian, but it’s normal in Batman Inc.
One way to simplify it would have been to NOT have all the #18s of the Bat-books referencing the death in a story that’s still ongoing (putting the requiem issues off ’til Batman Inc was finished obviously made far too much sense).
In the end, you have to kind of accept that Inc. and DotF somehow magically occur simultaneously, and, as Daibhid points out, that those stories make Batman become more of a loner as a result, while also more of a team player.
Twas Dale E–sham who mentioned on his website that the plan was for Northstar’s wedding to happen in Alpha Flight. When the series got cut to a miniseries again, the storyline was moved and handed to Marjorie Liu. He’s since removed the statement, because Marvel pressed down on him a little!
FWIW, Jamie Madrox and Layla Miller managed to get married off panel in (or I suppose just before) X-Factor #247. That was a significant development in their characters’ arcs which have spanned the entire ~100 issue run of the book. The wedding specifically was foreshadowed as far back as issue 10.
Regarding the colouring of Judge Dredd, Dez Skinn’s Quality Comics did US-format coloured versions of the stories — including “Blockmania!” — back in the mid-80’s.
Anyone else enjoy the irony of a long-time X-Men fan complaining that the continuity of the Bat-books isn’t conducive to reading only one of them each month? 😉
Having read the first TP of Snyder’s Batman run, and all of Batman Inc so far, I’d say reading just one Batman book is fine, and consider the continuity clashes mentioned above might make *more* sense.
Another break in the characterisation of Batman comes at the end of O’Neil’s editorship of the Bat line, I think, i.e. the end of No Man’s Land. By the end of NML Batman is pretty much portrayed as an older character who has been through the grinder in recent years – Knightfall and so forth. There’s a sense that he’s been Batman a long time, and has to overcome a lot of mid-life crises about his abilities.
When the books pick up after Gotham’s reconstruction, he’s back to being in his early thirties again, with all that ponderous aging stuff gone. It’s a subtle reset, but it’s there.
@Rob: When I started reading the X-books, there were three of them. I wouldn’t try starting the X-Men titles from scratch in 2013 either.
Al and Paul’s discussion on the Milligan and McCarthy reprint book pushed me to order it.
Speaking of Peter Milligan, what is he doing now? He had three monthlies at DC/Vertigo, and now he has none. I tried http://www.petermilligan.co.uk, but it is really out of date.
I don’t think Milligan has anything announced after finishing on Red Lanterns and Hellblazer yet.
I think the Kevin Keller wedding over at Archie did a pretty good of being prominent without having it overshadow the rest of the book. It’s definitively there, but it never really feels like it’s taking space away from the other subplots, which all proceed apace. Heck, for all the hype, I was surprised how little wedding there actually was.
Surely though, that’s easier with the Archie books, which are already largely romantic comedy.
” Anyone else enjoy the irony of a long-time X-Men fan complaining that the continuity of the Bat-books isn’t conducive to reading only one of them each month? ”
I think we all know by this point that Paul O’Brien reads all the X-Books as a public service at the very least, and a tragic act of martyrdom at the very best, so that the rest of us need not bother.
Bit of a tangent here, but….
Re: Mark’s comment that “Another break in the characterisation of Batman comes at the end of O’Neil’s editorship of the Bat line, I think, i.e. the end of No Man’s Land. By the end of NML Batman is pretty much portrayed as an older character who has been through the grinder in recent years – Knightfall and so forth. There’s a sense that he’s been Batman a long time, and has to overcome a lot of mid-life crises about his abilities.”
I think “No Man’s Land” is one of those odd stories in comics that, while it clearly wasn’t intended as such, works as an Ending to the Story of Batman. It has the character at the end of a long, grueling career, resolves the majority of his character conflicts (internal ones, external conflicts with both friends and enemies, etc.), brings in the entire supporting cast roster, and has Batman-appropriate stakes that pretty much can’t be topped. While the quality isn’t entirely consistent, it really is a fine piece and I can’t think of anything else quite like it.