Feb 13
House To Astonish Episode 32
Posted on Saturday, February 13, 2010 by Al in Podcast
Our latest episode of House to Astonish sees us discussing Marvel and DC’s May launches, Captain America’s encounter with the Tea Party movement, Christopher Nolan’s involvement with the Superman movies, Spider-Man in 3D and BOOM! Studios’ new imprint. We’ve also got reviews of The Muppet Show, Human Target and X-Men: Pixie Strikes Back, and one of Marvel’s most embarrassing ethnic stereotypes takes the stage in the Official Handbook of the Official Handbook of the Marvel Universe. All this plus Columbo, Contest of Champions on Ice and two guys in a shed 100 miles north of Saskatoon.
The episode is here – let us know what you think in the comments below, on Twitter, via email or by incongruous hieroglyphics on the wall of an alien tomb.
Avatar was a 90 minute-to-two hour movie stretched out to three hours for me – I keep comparing it to Jemas-era Marvel comics where this story Would Last Six Issues Dammit, however long the story’s natural length was.
I think you might hear “numpty” from a Welshman. But not in the X-Men universe, where borderline-offensive and queasily innacurate regional accents are as trad jazz as Wolverine’s wingtips.
You do hear “Mom” in the UK – OH GOD NOT SHAMROCK – yes. Here in the Midlands, for instance.
And what’s the deal with people saying “can I get” instead of “can I have?” STOP LEARNING ENGLISH FROM DAVID SCHWIMMER.
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Also: only if one of the spirits comes out in a bowler hat and sash screamin’ NO SORREDOR!
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As someone who has lived a hundred miles north of Saskatoon, (okay, northwest) I greatly, greatly resent the implication that we are any less movie savvy than any other area. Saskatoon is the Paris of the Prairies, and we are every bit as media-saturated as anywhere else!
…okay, Saskatchewan in generally is fairly boring. But you’re spot on on the Muppets review.
The business about Shamrock slipping in the shower and becoming a hairdresser actually comes from an obscure appearance in Ben Raab’s Excalibur where Raab didn’t refer to her by codename (instead challenging readers to guess who she was).
The obscure Lobdell story Paul is thinking of is the one that gave us her brother Paddy.
My best friend, my dad and I went to see Avatar. Afterwards my friend and I walked back to the car discussing how it looked fantastic, but everything was so by-the-numbers.
Eventually, after much debating, I realised my dad hadn’t really said anything, so I asked him what he’d thought. All he said was, “Well, I wasn’t bored.”
And I suddenly realised that he was right. It was a 3-hour film that hadn’t bored me to tears. No matter how crap the story, that’s impressive.
Probably the most perfect incident of “cutting through the crap” that I have ever seen.
Oh, and just one more thing that’s been bothering me:
What the hell is up with that 3D Man thing? What the — I mean, who in the HELL thought that was a better design – or name! – than Triathlon?
I mean, ew. Ew ew ew.
Ew.
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I was definitely put off by that scene in Captain America. I don’t identify with the tea parties and don’t attend their rallies, but I am generally for lower taxes. My problem with the scene was this:
(minor)SPOILERS
Cap and Falcon find out that the 50s Cap has gotten in league with an evil-anti gevernment conspiracy. So, they fly out to the area and begin spying from the rooftops on an anti-tax protest as though an anti tax protest would naturally go hand in hand with an evil white-supremicist conspiracy. If Cap wanted to infiltrate a conspiracy he should go looking for a conspiracy, not a peaceful rally! It just didn’t make any senseat all and shows, in my mind, a pretty disdainful opinion on the part of the creators for those who sympathize with a lower-taxes viewpoint.
The Cap stuff doesn’t bother me, but these little political digs and jabs by creators have been in comics forever (for instance, Alex Maleev in his DD run used to have newspapers saying “Captain America Against Iraq War”).
Marvel just got caught this time because characters like Superman and Cap are the kind of iconic character where everyone wants to put them on their “side” of the argument. More scrutiny will occur when you have Superman whining about global warming (which he did in Countdown) or Cap being against Japan being nuked so that is why the Army conspired to have him be frozen in the Atlantic (which was in the dreadful MK Cap run).
happily haven’t seen Avatar.
If people saw one Sci-Fi movie in 2009, I wish they all could have seen Moon instead.
I believe, in years past, Steven Grant has written some funny anecdotal material about Contest of Champions.
Muppet Show book is one of best things on the market today.
As a card-carrying Welshman, I wouldn’t be confused or surprised if I heard somebody say ‘numpty’, but only because it’s recognised as a bit of ‘foreign’ slang from TV etc. It’s certainly not in common use round my way.
Also, I haven’t seen Avatar and I certainly don’t intend to.
@odessa steps: I saw Moon and I saw Avatar. I thought they were both brilliant, for very different reasons. Apples and Oranges. Don’t be so pretentious.
@Mattew Craig: I have never heard ‘Mom’ used by people the UK.
@Valhallhan: Why is it ‘pretentious’ to think Moon might be a better film than Avatar?
(Especially when the overwhelming response given by those who have seen Avatar is that while it is technically brilliant it is ultimately disappointing as a viewing experience?)
@Valhallan, @Matthew Craig
I had an interesting “Mom”-related discussion a year or so back. A friend of mine from Sunderland referred to his girlfriend’s “Mom” (she’s from Solihull), and didn’t believe that it was an Americanism. He just thought it was a usual alternate spelling. He’s usually very aware of these sorts of things, too.
So, it’s definitely not unheard of in the UK. But people don’t realise this. Which is odd.
I think it’s pretentious to say you hapily haven’t seen the one film (the big-walking-target-for-indie-critics action movie), and to say actually this one (the critically acclaimed, fashionably low budget, introspective one) is way better. Particularly when it’s the only one of the two you’ve actually seen.
Yes, Moon is a more inteligent movie, but that doesn’t make it better. Is Folk better than R N’B? Is Schindler’s List better than Some Like it Hot? OK, those examples are more extreme, but y’know what I mean?
Well, in defense of Avatar it’s probably the most well-realized science fiction setting since Star Wars. That should count for something.
Can’t say I liked it though. It was pretty and all, but it was also utterly predictable, badly acted (with the notable exception of Zoe Saldana), and had horrible dialogue. The scene where the colonel’s walker flipped its giant Bowie knife had me laughing out loud. The score was one of the worst I’ve ever heard.
Plus I had real issues with the 3D. I don’t know if it was a problem with the 3D glasses, with my glasses, with the IMAX screen, with my eyes, the angle we were viewing from, or what, but I couldn’t get the focus quite right and it was very uncomfortable for me to look at. Also found it disconcerting to see objects hovering in front of the screen.
@Taibak: I totally respect that opinion because you’ve actually seen the movie.
“Well, in defense of Avatar it’s probably the most well-realized science fiction setting since Star Wars.”
Mass Effect! Maybe?
I sometimes wonder if “mom” did used to be an acceptable spelling over here, but because people now think it’s an Americanism it’s become less acceptable.
@Vallhallahan
“I think it’s pretentious to say you hapily haven’t seen the one film (the big-walking-target-for-indie-critics action movie), and to say actually this one (the critically acclaimed, fashionably low budget, introspective one) is way better.”
It’s a fair point (maybe), but that seems to assume a different usage of the word ‘pretentious’ than I think is standard. There was nothing in what Odessa Steps said that indicated that he thought Moon was ‘better’ than Avatar because one is thoughtful/intelligent and one is just an action movie. Just seemed like offering a valid opinion to me, rather than, as you seem to think, expressing some arch, artistic value judgement. I haven’t seen either, but I think I might enjoy Moon while I very probably wouldn’t enjoy Avatar. I like a good action movie as much as most, but when so many people give such qualified reviews of a film (like Taibak did above) then its not such a stretch to decide not to bother seeing it.
Secondly, I utterly refute the idea that you can only have a valid opinion on something if you’ve actually experienced it. To follow your precedent and give an extreme example, do you actually need to smell a smoking pile of sh:t to hold the opinion that it stinks?
Can we agree on some kind of compromise with Marvel, where they can bring back Shamrock if they promise to never, ever bring back Banshee?
Though I suppose if Shamrock’s ability is to conjure up Irish stereotypes, he’d fit right in.
I haven’t seen Avatar either. I’d still like to though.
@Cheeris
“Secondly, I utterly refute the idea that you can only have a valid opinion on something if you’ve actually experienced it…”
In as much as all opinions are valid, yes, of course. But it isn’t going to be as… informed an opinion, is it? I’m not quite sure I’d give both equal weight when considering them anyway. But that might just be me.
I have seen Avatar, and while I didn’t like it particularly (apart from Michelle Rodriguez, who has become such a glorious butch cliche that I love her unconditionally), I must say I’ve found most of the critical backlash somewhat tiresome. But I think I might have critic (or critique?) fatigue or something.
What happens to all these Boom/Disney comics now that Disney have bought Marvel? Are they moving over?
I hear “Mom” a lot nowadays, but it’s because we’ve got someone from Wolverhampton in the office. I thought it an Americanism, but apparently it’s quite local. Definitely not Welsh, mind. As for “numpty”, I’ve not heard it in Wales, but I hear it a lot here in southern England, and my Mancunian mate says it a lot. Never as an adjective though.
On DC and odd licensing, let’s not forget that the makers of The Karate Kid licensed the name from DC.
Oh, also, I don’t think I’ve ever heard “Numpty” in Ireland. Maybe in other parts of the country it’s more common though.
Heh, it seems Winter Contest of Champions is actually happening, in a way:
http://marvel.com/news/comicstories.11319.msh%7ecolon%7e_what_the–%3f%7eexcl%7e_winter_games%7ecolon%7e_day_1
I love What the–?!
@Cheeris: Fair point, and perhaps I was being harsh. It just seemed like one of those, “Ugh, I’d never read an X Men book, I’ll only read Watchmen” sort of comments. Y’know, Watchmen was good, some X Men books are also good. You don’t lose your CAMRA membership card for enjoying a Stella every now and then*.
*I dunno, you might actually.
I’ll stop with the analogies now.
On the subject of Avater, here’s an interesting set of photos from a frankly bizarre Palestinian protest.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/gallery/2010/feb/14/west-bank-barrier-avatar-protest
And on the subject of Cap, here’s a rather ill-informed slagging off of Brubaker and Marvel.
http://patrioticvoices.com/political-outrage/taking-a-comic-too-far-marvel-displays-racism-and-ignorance
The teabagging protesters really *are* crazy and racist, and need to be mocked and taken down whenever the opportunity comes up. I’m glad Brubaker’s taken it upon himself to do that, and it’s lame Marvel wouldn’t back him up.
Yeah, there have been some very dodgy at best placards being waved around at Tea Party rallies w/r/t Pres. Obama.
Let alone some of the mass-email jokes that have been attributed to some “conservative” politicians.
I saw one episode of the Human Target TV series and it was just rubbish. A comic based on this boring mess is doomed from the start.
If anyone wants to read great Human Target comics, I highly recommend the trades of Peter Milligan’s run, which is one of my all-time favorites. Start with:
http://www.dccomics.com/vertigo/graphic_novels/?gn=13673
saying I happily haven’t seen Avatar doesn’t that it might be a well-made film. I just don’t want to see it. Should I really need to spend 2-3 hours of my life and spend $15 dollars to validate the notion that I likely wouldn’t like something?
And I thought Moon was a great movie and wished more people had seen it.
I guess I didn’t realize that championing something that might have slipped under people’s radars (I know I had to drive 2 hours to see it in a theater that showed it maybe 2 weeks) was pretentious.
—
that said, I freely admit that I’m not a fan of the Bay/Bruckheimer school of action films
Fair enough, and I do agree that Moon was excellent.
@Mike
Are you seriously saying that every person that is part of that movement is a rascist? What evidence is there for that, exactly?
Paul’s description of Avatar is spot on. At no point will you ever not know what’s going to happen next, but it’s not like people go on a roller coaster and complain that they could see the track ahead of the car. It came out around the same time as a new 3-D CGI version of “A Christmas Carol,” and in a way you have to approach it the same way: You’re not there to find out what happens to Scrooge, you’re there to see what the ghosts look like.
(By the way, the podcast’s take on Shamrock is, sadly, much more interesting than her actual depiction. If memory serves, the “spirits” weren’t actually visible entities. She just had good luck powers like Longshot – guns would jam when fired on her, etc. – and the “spirits” were the justification for them.)
I haven’t seen Avatar and I’m not desperate to do so. I’ve heard it’s supposed to be visually amazing, but that really isn’t enough to make me want to part with 20 quid and 3 hours of my life.
Well, that review definitely did its job – I’ll be back-ordering a copy of the Muppet Show for myself this week!
One thing to remember with 3D is – it doesn’t work well for everyone. I went to see Avatar with a bunch of colleagues and, while the 3D was occaisionally effective, for the most part I found myself struggling to focus on blurry, eye-straining images. Avatar has a hell of a lock of long tracking shots where you’re obviously meant to go “hey, look at those cool 3D effects,” but when you can’t see them it does makes it a very very boring movie.
Having said that, the guys I went with all loved it.
I think the Muppet Show, while not broadcast regularly, will still find its way to a young audience via DVDs that their nostalgic parents will own.
@Valhallahan – check your sources, ill informed is not a word that that allows you to be oblivious to important issues in the country. Maybe you should pay attention more?
It’s neato, that I can see everyone who links me, and reply to their dimwitted remarks.
@Kyle Fletcher
“Ill informed” is two words.
I used to subtitle DVDs for both the British and American market, and our UK clients were very adamant about our never using “Mom” instead of “Mum” even when the characters, who often were American, were clearly saying “Mom”. The same went for “Arse” and “Ass”. You can imagine how difficult that made things when we started working on the U.K. releases of “That 70s Show”. I’m sorry, but “dumbarse” just looks silly.
On an unrelated note, I believe most American kids today should be familiar with the classic Muppet Show format because of Disney Channel’s “Studio DC: Almost Live”, which is essentially the Muppet Show (same Muppets, same behind the scene antics in between sketches) but with guest stars like Selena Gomez, Miley Cyrus, Demi Lovato, etc.
To be fair, the Americans had to get it from somewhere…
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Not necessarily. A lot of Americanisms were deliberate deviations promoted by post-revolution poets to distance the nation from the British Empire. For example, “-ize” instead of “-ise”. Now, whether “Mom” is one such deviation, I haven’t a clue.
On another unrelated note, I haven’t read it, but the first storyline from the deviated Human Target comic seems to be a direct sequel to one of the episodes of the Fox series, in which a DA learns her father is a mob boss who wants to repent to win her love back. They establish there’s a difference between enforcers loyal to the mob and enforcers loyal to the family, so I suspect the comic might make a lot more sense in context of the TV series.
Not that I’m suggesting the show is any good, mind you…although it really isn’t as bad as most comics fans would have you believe.
Thanks for yet another entertaining episode, guys! I had not thought about the ‘problem’ with 3D-figures being ‘cut off’, that Paul mentioned but I think this is really a crucial point for future filmmakers. Generally: 3D demands some kind of new ‘tradition’ of shooting, with new camera angles and so on. I wonder if Omnimax theaters generally would be better suited to these kinds of movies? (OTOH: There aren’t that many of these to go around, all things considered!)
As for Avatar, I think we may want to consider it, effects-wise, as only a first step in terms of 3D-film development. I feel quite confident that with the way this tech is being pushed, it will probably be mainstream within the next 10 years or so (although, I know, that prediction has been made several times since the 1950’s!)
Stay astonishable! 🙂
I was literally crying from eye-strain after about five minutes of Avatar in 3D. I gave up and watched the rest of the (quite boring) film with the glasses off.
Real-D 3D is a gimmick and one I really hope dies off soon.
You know, I’m sure it wasn’t intentional, but they can sort of get away with Pixie saying things a Welsh person wouldn’t say in the little fantasy world on the basis of the fantast world being set in a stereotypical American high school of the sort only really seen on television. Maybe the REAL Pixie wouldn’t say “mom,” but the real Mercury isn’t a cheerleader either.
A little tidbit of dialogue from Contest of Champions #1:
“You wear the emblem of Great Britain!”
“And you, the green of Ireland!”
(Narration Box) “Shamrock and Captain Britain, divided by their countries’ enmity, eye each other suspiciously!”
Oh, /Marvel/.
Any political movement in America that (1) demands lower taxes and “less government” – typically code for slashing government programs that help the disproportionately non-white poor – and (2) rails on and on about how immigrants are stealing “real” Americans’ jobs is going to end up largely racist. There’s a reason for things like the significant overlap between the Tea Partiers and the Birther movement, and the proliferation of racial epithets that tend to crop up at Tea Party gatherings.
I’m generally of the opinion that comic book artists and writers should try to be gutsier on voicing their political opinions than they are – despite the fact that in general, mainstream superhero creators are a fairly conservative bunch who I largely disagree with (which is unsurprising, demographically speaking – most of them are middle-aged, male and white, and middle-aged white men are the one of the most conservative demographics out there). If nothing else, I like it when more superhero comics try to be about something more than Good Guy X punches Bad Guy Y.
Well, now I know what happens in the last issue of Jeff Parker’s Spider-Man 1602:
“‘Tis the agents of the mysterious Jacob Woo! See how their clockwork automaton fires heat from its eyes!”
As far as politics in Cap goes, there’s a Shortpacked! strip on the subject.
Wasn’t there a Human Target TV series back in the nineties as well? Did it keep the disguise angle?
My neice says “Mom” sometimes, but I blame the Disney Channel…
You mention that in the Jemas era they used to launch one title a month, and that each launch was an event. Do we forget about Tsunami so quickly? A wave of titles thrown out with little to no publicity, only to founder on the rocks and die in the space of six to twelve issues.
Also, regarding Cap and the Tea Partiers, welcome to the American Right Wing media echo chamber. Something that can be construed as disparaging to the conservative movement is found and is bounced around the internet with increasing levels of indignation. Next stop: Fox News!
I won’t speak to any accusations of racism or extremism in the movement. I’ll rather commend to everyone this terrifying and incredible New York Times piece. It paints a picture of a deeply paranoid group of people who, in many cases, openly admit their profound ignorance of politics and world affairs.
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/02/16/us/politics/16teaparty.html?
Thoroughly enjoying the podcast. Can anyone recommend any other comics based podcasts? There seem so many on i-tunes.